Post by Adonnis on Sept 1, 2006 19:27:32 GMT -5
This one sounds cool if you wonan try a warrior mage use this template. i got it from dizzarian.com/acmages/
Starting Template
The purpose for this template was to be a main character that could do everything I wanted in a main. I wanted melee and magic skills to be as equal as possible. I wanted to have Lockpick. I wanted Arcane Lore so that no-buff hunting (or minimal-buff hunting) would be possible. And I wanted the template to complete early.
It didn't take any time at all to realize, that a Warrior Mage would have to use a racial weapon to have enough skill credits. So the first real choice was "what race?" I discarded Aluvian and Dagger quickly; I personally dislike the tedium of dealing with burden. So that left Sho for UA or Gharun'dim for Staff so that I could have a high Strength. Given that versatility was a goal and also considering that grievvers are best killed with slashing, I chose Sho and UA to have all damage types available. (At the time, the crop had not been introduced so Staff had no slashing weapon.)
The last choice was whether or not to spec a magic school. I chose not to. Doing so would have delayed completion past what I wanted. And given that I intended this to be my final main character, I accepted that I would have to play him past level 80 for his magic skills to be sufficient for high level content.
And thus, I settled on the following --
Race: Sho
Attributes: 100/10/10/10/100/100
Specialize: UA
Train: War, Life, Creature, Item
Mana Conversion @ 7, Healing @ 16, Arcane Lore @ 26, Lockpick @ 50, Melee Defense @ 100
The attributes should be no surprise. 100/100 Focus/Self max out his magic skills. He would be roughly -29 on his magic skills when compared with specialized skills. The 100/10 Strength/Coordination start also puts him -30 down on his UA skill when compared to a typical UA warrior. Both magic and melee then would be off by roughly the same amount.
At level 16, the template is essentially complete. Upon gaining Healing, the character has all the tools necessary for playing as a mage or melee. The convenience skills Arcane Lore, Lockpick, and Melee Defense are picked up later.
Melee Defense indeed turns out to be a convenience skill. Shields are so effective in reducing damage that a melee character does not need Melee Defense to survive. Getting hit for zero damage or evading pretty much amount to the same thing. There are situations where Melee Defense is certainly desirable, but very, very few where it's required.
Leveling the Template
Levels 1 to 16: If you choose not (or cannot arrange) to be twinked, then blasting at stuff with War magic is the best bet. You need to kill creatures before they reach you. Fortunately, level I War spells are efficient enough for this. After you've gotten past your low Endurance woes, you can start to dabble with melee if you choose, but you may find that you also need level III+ buffs.
Levels 16 to 29: Gaining Healing makes leveling as melee a much easier and a more cost effective option than leveling as a mage. Leveling in the Lugian Citadel is possible at 16. It will be tough at first, but once you can cast level IV buffs, you'll be able to handle any number of lugians at once.
Levels 29 to 45: At 29, you should be casting level V buffs allowing you to graduate to olthoi. As always, you can hunt as a mage, but you will likely find that using melee on olthoi gives better and more consistent XPs than hunting tuskers as mage.
Levels 45 to 60: Your magic skills are now sufficient that hunting the Obsidian Plain, Dires, or even banderlings on Aerlinthe as a mage beats playing as a melee. Besides, you'll be sick of bugs by now.
Levels 60 to 80: You can handle vapor golems easily as a mage adding Shimena Keep or the northern Marae Lassel plain to your powerleveling locations.
Level 80+: Your increasing magic skills allow you access to most any hunting spot you choose.
Yom at Level 100 (base values)
Attributes 240/140/150/150/250/250, Health/Stamina/Mana 210/275/385
War 290, Life/Creature 280, Item 270, Mana C 238, Lore 215
UA 315, Melee D 255, Magic D 226, Healing 266, Lockpick 265
Yom’s UA buffs to 390, War to 360, Mana C to 299, and Melee D to 328.
Advantages
The biggest advantage of the template is versatility: the ability to play melee or mage as the situation demands. Of course, every mage has a racial weapon, but the additional points from specialization help the Warrior Mage bring his melee skill to useful levels earlier. Many quests are easier as a melee. In some cases, a party may need more melees or more mages and the Warrior Mage can assume either role equally well.
A well-developed melee skill allows the Warrior Mage to kill some creatures at a lower level than pure mages. In particular, grievvers are killed easier with melee. Augmented drudges, virindi observers, olthoi, hollow lugians, hollow minions, etc. are all easier to at lower levels as a melee than as a mage.
The template completes early with nearly every convenience skill learned by level 50. You don't have to wait for all four schools of magic. You even have all combat support skills by 16.
No-buff (or minimal-buff) hunting is possible with Arcane Lore. With the right gear, you can hunt as melee with little more than a buff or two on your shield and a few buffs on your weapon.
Disadvantages
The lack of specialization combined with spreading XPs rather thin, puts the Warrior Mage well behind pure mages in magic ability. This is made up a bit by melee skills in some situations, but at higher levels you will feel weak in comparison. Count on your magic skills being 40 points or more behind a pure mage's spec'd skills.
Melee in general is seriously underpowered in AC. There are very few situations in high level play where it pays to use melee instead of magic. While melee is very useful early on, the usefulness diminishes the higher your magic skills get. One problem for the template is that for melee to be efficient against high level content requires debuffs. But anything you can debuff can just as easily be finished with War.
Comments
The lack of Melee Defense is really not a hindrance. The character is a mage, so he would expect to rely heavily on magic for defense anyway. And shields are simply way, way overpowered. There's even an interesting synergy between no Melee Defense and UA: you can fight with zero Stamina. UA warriors tend to fight at full speed, which can be done just as well with zero Stamina. And if you're not counting on evades, you also don't need Stamina. Yom could fight for hours in the Acid Vault with just 25 Stamina Elixirs. More conventional melees claimed they needed a 100 or more to elixirs for the same duration.
And while we're on the subject of Melee Defense, I was surprised to discover that Melee Defense was useful on this template despite the deplorable 10/10 Quickness/Coordination start. In mage mode, there really weren't any surprises. Nearly all high level content cannot be evaded despite having dumped over 200 million XPs into Melee Defense and its attributes. But I really didn't expect to evade high level content. I expected that Melee Defense would only be useful for mid-level quests (and it was for the new Elysa's Favor quest). I had hoped that cursed bones could be evaded making sections of Aerlinthe easier, or higher level tumeroks on Marae Lassel, or even olthoi. But alas, Yom only evades bones rarely, tumeroks infrequently, and olthoi soldiers just some of the time. I guess there were a couple surprises though. Yom evades vapor golems often. Yom evades silver tuskers and rampagers roughly half the time. Still, the benefit of Melee Defense has been so small to Yom's mage half that I cannot recommend it for a mage.
So where has Melee Defense been useful? The real surprise is that Yom is able to evade high level content in melee mode. Of course, a weapon buffed with Defender VII provides a huge bonus, but the evades Yom has been getting are unreal. The most surprising was nearly 70% evades against terebrous hollow minions. Silver tuskers and rampagers almost never touch Yom in melee mode, even tusker guards rarely hit him with katar and shield in hand. This has breathed new life into his melee half at high levels giving him new areas where it now makes more sense to use melee instead of magic. In particular, Yom has been hunting the Singularity Bore solo with little difficulty as melee.
At level 100, the only school of magic I wish I had spec'd is War. Quiddity rifts still give me trouble, and that's mostly because I need another 30 or so points of War to land enough spells in a row to get the job done. I do have sufficient War to kill the olthoi queen and to assist with Pookie. But I really owe quiddity rifts some major hurting and can't quite kill one yet.
Variations
The following are all variations of the Warrior Mage. When I use the term "Warrior Mage," I mean a template that specializes a weapon and at the least trains all four schools of magic. Both War and a well-developed melee offense are the hallmarks of the Warrior Mage.
A quick summary of the templates follows:
Yom Warrior Mage: spec weapon, trained magic skills
Sono Hito Warrior Mage: spec weapon, spec Life
Hirihoto Warrior Mage: spec weapon, spec War
Og Melee: spec weapon, spec Creature/Life
Within Yom's basic template, the choice of racial weapon is optional. Staff does better damage over time and now has a slashing weapon. Staff also saves a couple points but commits you to Arcane Lore to not waste starting credits.
100/10/10/10/100/100
Spec: Staff
Train: War, Life, Creature (or Item), Mana Conversion, Arcane Lore
Item (or Creature) @ 9, Healing @ 20, other skills optional
If you don't mind dealing with low Strength, choosing Aluvian for Dagger is an interesting option. In addition to getting the best melee weapon in the game today, you get a large boost to Coordination based skills such as Healing, Lockpick, and Melee Defense.
10/10/100/10/100/100
Spec: Dagger
Train: War, Life, Creature (or Item), Mana Conversion, Arcane Lore
Item (or Creature) @ 9, Healing @ 20, other skills optional
The Sono Hito template spec's Life giving you at least one strong school of magic:
100/10/10/10/100/100
Spec: UA, Life
Train: War, Creature (or Item)
Mana Conversion @ 7, Item (or Creature) @ 20, Healing @ 40, other skills optional
This variant plays differently than the Yom template. Having spec’d Life skill makes the Sono Hito better at support and debuffing. If Yom is capable of debuffing a creature, then he is just as capable of finishing it with his War magic. But the Sono Hito template has a Life magic skill higher than his War making many situations where he can debuff a creature and then more reliably finish it with his melee skill. This variant then plays more often as a hybrid melee than Yom might.
The Hirihoto template spec's War:
100/10/10/10/100/100
Spec: Staff, War
Train: Life, Mana Conversion
Creature @ 9, Item @ 26, Healing @ 50, other skills optional
This variant plays out much as the Yom variant but with a much better War skill. It won't feel as gimpy as a mage while retaining the same basic melee skills. The starting credits balance easier if you go Staff or Dagger.
The Og Melee templates have been discussed ad infinitum on the Warrior Stop boards. Most will not get War magic and thus remain hybrid melees and not true Warrior Mages under the definition I use here.
100/10/10/10/100/100
Spec: UA, Creature, Life
Train: Item
Mana Conversion @ 7, Healing @ 16, War @ 80
Essentially a melee throughout its career, the Og Melee becomes a full-fledged Warrior Mage very late. But the debuffing power of this template is awesome.
Recommendations
Given how weak melee is in the game today, I’m not sure I can recommend that anyone play a Warrior Mage. The only creatures you absolutely must use melee skill on are the hollow lugians, and it takes very little melee skill to hit these. Simply take any mage template, max out the damage attribute for your racial weapon, put some XPs into your racial weapon, and you’ll have sufficient skill with it just trained. Likewise, trained melee skill is sufficient to hunt grievvers and lower level olthoi, the other likely choices to melee.
However, if you still want to give it a try, then I do recommend you specialize at least one magic school.
For solid PvM play, I’d go with the Hirihoto variant and Staff, the Sono Hito is a close second.
For solid PvP play, the Og Melee is a fine template with UA.
Of course, the game continues to change and what is an uber template one day is many times discarded for another. Turbine has promised melee love in the near future. Depending on how effective that is and on how it is implemented, the Warrior Mage could become the trend of future. At least, I’m keeping my fingers crossed.
Q and A with Yom
<< But now that Arcane has been upgraded, it does make me wonder... Should I take arcane next? >>
Even without the upgrade, my vote would be for Arcane Lore and still get Lockpick.
Lore and Lockpick help you cut down on buffs and give you access to some of the top items in the game. A Major War item would be really nice for an Og Mage.
Melee Defense cuts down on damage, period. You might be able to use it to cut down on buffs some, perhaps skip banes in certain places or perhaps use Melee D req items.
But I don't think the utility of Melee D for a mage is as much as what Lore and Lockpick would give you.
<< Almost makes me wanna reroll this hybrid ghetto character from my og mage......almost
>>
Heh, I didn't mention it originally to avoid upsetting the Ogs, but my main prior the Yom was an Og.
<< I think you have too much of a "melee-mind set" Yom, >>
Yea, I've been slumming too much on the Warrior boards.
What I had wanted in the character was to be able to use melee or mage almost interchangeably. Of course, the realities of the game don't allow that at high level very easily. So sadly, Yom has been mostly a mage for the last 50 levels or so, and melee has indeed been just a backup. But I spent a lot of credits and XPs for this "backup."
Melee Defense did swing it back a little. Because Yom does evade high level content well in melee mode, some high level quest dungeons are easier as melee. *shrug*
<<What's not uber about this template? It's max/min for starting attributes. It's spec'd a killing skill and completes at 100. >>
Yea, but the moron didn't max the attributes for that spec killing skill. So it's still roughly a trained skill.
Uh, wait, is this my thread?
<< Your experience with meleeD evades is especially interesting, since it goes against conventional wisdom (specialize it or forget it). >>
There's this notion that if you can't evade 100% then it's worthless (same for Magic D too). But evading occasionally (or even resisting occasionally) does help, even if it's just a little.
But the thing is, with really crappy stats to start, my trained Melee D gets a lot of evades in melee mode. Trained does help. I'd think that normal melees would get great use from trained Melee D.
In mage mode, eh, I still can't really recommend it. But there are examples where it has made a difference.
I do evade cursed bones even relics once in a while. Now in normal hunting you have quite a bit control over what you engage, and those rare evades make little difference. But I just got done doing Aerfalle's Keep. During the fight to find the watchman and in the keep itself, those rare evades started to count. The cumulative effect made it easier to stay healthy, to stay focused on killing, and I found I got through in far better shape than previous expeditions despite the fact this was the smallest group I'd done it with.
Also, I did the Singularity Bore solo recently. Now with great armor, a phat shield, and some luck (if anything to keep the lag away), anyone with enough weapon skill can do it. But before Melee D, I was hard-pressed to handle two terebrous minions at once. During this particular trip, I got surrounded by five or six. I managed to get into a corner and kept it to three at a time and survived. It was very close at times, so without the evades I'm pretty sure there would have been a messy cleanup for the Bore Sanitation Dept.
But it's still not enough that I'd recommend Melee D for a mage. Those 10 credits aren't allowing me to do things I couldn't have done without. All sorts of characters hit Aerfalle's Keep or the Sing Bore without Melee D. I used to hunt hollows at tusker camps, in Panopticon, in the lugian mines, in Linvak Tukal, and even terebrous on the Caul without Melee D. Those 10 credits just make it a bit easier, and for me that's not that great an investment.
<< Agreed in general, Yom... I'm not saying meleeD is worthless, but only that it is not cost-efficient. >>
That sums it up nicely.
<< And as you know doubt know, the difference between the "occassional" evade and "occassional" resist is of course that melee doesn't kill ya, but magic does... >>
Heh. Curiously the very next two deaths I had after getting my Melee D to over 300 buffed were from melee attacks. A relic polished me off once after I'd gotten in trouble and tried getting away. And a hellfire went melee on me and critted twice in a row, ouch. So much for Melee D saving the day.
But normally, yea, even without a shield, you take much more damage from spells than melee attacks.
<< Dizzarian : I think it will probably influence a few to try it. Seems like a pretty fun template. >>
Egads, it wasn't my intent to persuade anyone to do it. But rather to make sure they understand what they might be getting into if they were inclined to try something like this.
Starting Template
The purpose for this template was to be a main character that could do everything I wanted in a main. I wanted melee and magic skills to be as equal as possible. I wanted to have Lockpick. I wanted Arcane Lore so that no-buff hunting (or minimal-buff hunting) would be possible. And I wanted the template to complete early.
It didn't take any time at all to realize, that a Warrior Mage would have to use a racial weapon to have enough skill credits. So the first real choice was "what race?" I discarded Aluvian and Dagger quickly; I personally dislike the tedium of dealing with burden. So that left Sho for UA or Gharun'dim for Staff so that I could have a high Strength. Given that versatility was a goal and also considering that grievvers are best killed with slashing, I chose Sho and UA to have all damage types available. (At the time, the crop had not been introduced so Staff had no slashing weapon.)
The last choice was whether or not to spec a magic school. I chose not to. Doing so would have delayed completion past what I wanted. And given that I intended this to be my final main character, I accepted that I would have to play him past level 80 for his magic skills to be sufficient for high level content.
And thus, I settled on the following --
Race: Sho
Attributes: 100/10/10/10/100/100
Specialize: UA
Train: War, Life, Creature, Item
Mana Conversion @ 7, Healing @ 16, Arcane Lore @ 26, Lockpick @ 50, Melee Defense @ 100
The attributes should be no surprise. 100/100 Focus/Self max out his magic skills. He would be roughly -29 on his magic skills when compared with specialized skills. The 100/10 Strength/Coordination start also puts him -30 down on his UA skill when compared to a typical UA warrior. Both magic and melee then would be off by roughly the same amount.
At level 16, the template is essentially complete. Upon gaining Healing, the character has all the tools necessary for playing as a mage or melee. The convenience skills Arcane Lore, Lockpick, and Melee Defense are picked up later.
Melee Defense indeed turns out to be a convenience skill. Shields are so effective in reducing damage that a melee character does not need Melee Defense to survive. Getting hit for zero damage or evading pretty much amount to the same thing. There are situations where Melee Defense is certainly desirable, but very, very few where it's required.
Leveling the Template
Levels 1 to 16: If you choose not (or cannot arrange) to be twinked, then blasting at stuff with War magic is the best bet. You need to kill creatures before they reach you. Fortunately, level I War spells are efficient enough for this. After you've gotten past your low Endurance woes, you can start to dabble with melee if you choose, but you may find that you also need level III+ buffs.
Levels 16 to 29: Gaining Healing makes leveling as melee a much easier and a more cost effective option than leveling as a mage. Leveling in the Lugian Citadel is possible at 16. It will be tough at first, but once you can cast level IV buffs, you'll be able to handle any number of lugians at once.
Levels 29 to 45: At 29, you should be casting level V buffs allowing you to graduate to olthoi. As always, you can hunt as a mage, but you will likely find that using melee on olthoi gives better and more consistent XPs than hunting tuskers as mage.
Levels 45 to 60: Your magic skills are now sufficient that hunting the Obsidian Plain, Dires, or even banderlings on Aerlinthe as a mage beats playing as a melee. Besides, you'll be sick of bugs by now.
Levels 60 to 80: You can handle vapor golems easily as a mage adding Shimena Keep or the northern Marae Lassel plain to your powerleveling locations.
Level 80+: Your increasing magic skills allow you access to most any hunting spot you choose.
Yom at Level 100 (base values)
Attributes 240/140/150/150/250/250, Health/Stamina/Mana 210/275/385
War 290, Life/Creature 280, Item 270, Mana C 238, Lore 215
UA 315, Melee D 255, Magic D 226, Healing 266, Lockpick 265
Yom’s UA buffs to 390, War to 360, Mana C to 299, and Melee D to 328.
Advantages
The biggest advantage of the template is versatility: the ability to play melee or mage as the situation demands. Of course, every mage has a racial weapon, but the additional points from specialization help the Warrior Mage bring his melee skill to useful levels earlier. Many quests are easier as a melee. In some cases, a party may need more melees or more mages and the Warrior Mage can assume either role equally well.
A well-developed melee skill allows the Warrior Mage to kill some creatures at a lower level than pure mages. In particular, grievvers are killed easier with melee. Augmented drudges, virindi observers, olthoi, hollow lugians, hollow minions, etc. are all easier to at lower levels as a melee than as a mage.
The template completes early with nearly every convenience skill learned by level 50. You don't have to wait for all four schools of magic. You even have all combat support skills by 16.
No-buff (or minimal-buff) hunting is possible with Arcane Lore. With the right gear, you can hunt as melee with little more than a buff or two on your shield and a few buffs on your weapon.
Disadvantages
The lack of specialization combined with spreading XPs rather thin, puts the Warrior Mage well behind pure mages in magic ability. This is made up a bit by melee skills in some situations, but at higher levels you will feel weak in comparison. Count on your magic skills being 40 points or more behind a pure mage's spec'd skills.
Melee in general is seriously underpowered in AC. There are very few situations in high level play where it pays to use melee instead of magic. While melee is very useful early on, the usefulness diminishes the higher your magic skills get. One problem for the template is that for melee to be efficient against high level content requires debuffs. But anything you can debuff can just as easily be finished with War.
Comments
The lack of Melee Defense is really not a hindrance. The character is a mage, so he would expect to rely heavily on magic for defense anyway. And shields are simply way, way overpowered. There's even an interesting synergy between no Melee Defense and UA: you can fight with zero Stamina. UA warriors tend to fight at full speed, which can be done just as well with zero Stamina. And if you're not counting on evades, you also don't need Stamina. Yom could fight for hours in the Acid Vault with just 25 Stamina Elixirs. More conventional melees claimed they needed a 100 or more to elixirs for the same duration.
And while we're on the subject of Melee Defense, I was surprised to discover that Melee Defense was useful on this template despite the deplorable 10/10 Quickness/Coordination start. In mage mode, there really weren't any surprises. Nearly all high level content cannot be evaded despite having dumped over 200 million XPs into Melee Defense and its attributes. But I really didn't expect to evade high level content. I expected that Melee Defense would only be useful for mid-level quests (and it was for the new Elysa's Favor quest). I had hoped that cursed bones could be evaded making sections of Aerlinthe easier, or higher level tumeroks on Marae Lassel, or even olthoi. But alas, Yom only evades bones rarely, tumeroks infrequently, and olthoi soldiers just some of the time. I guess there were a couple surprises though. Yom evades vapor golems often. Yom evades silver tuskers and rampagers roughly half the time. Still, the benefit of Melee Defense has been so small to Yom's mage half that I cannot recommend it for a mage.
So where has Melee Defense been useful? The real surprise is that Yom is able to evade high level content in melee mode. Of course, a weapon buffed with Defender VII provides a huge bonus, but the evades Yom has been getting are unreal. The most surprising was nearly 70% evades against terebrous hollow minions. Silver tuskers and rampagers almost never touch Yom in melee mode, even tusker guards rarely hit him with katar and shield in hand. This has breathed new life into his melee half at high levels giving him new areas where it now makes more sense to use melee instead of magic. In particular, Yom has been hunting the Singularity Bore solo with little difficulty as melee.
At level 100, the only school of magic I wish I had spec'd is War. Quiddity rifts still give me trouble, and that's mostly because I need another 30 or so points of War to land enough spells in a row to get the job done. I do have sufficient War to kill the olthoi queen and to assist with Pookie. But I really owe quiddity rifts some major hurting and can't quite kill one yet.
Variations
The following are all variations of the Warrior Mage. When I use the term "Warrior Mage," I mean a template that specializes a weapon and at the least trains all four schools of magic. Both War and a well-developed melee offense are the hallmarks of the Warrior Mage.
A quick summary of the templates follows:
Yom Warrior Mage: spec weapon, trained magic skills
Sono Hito Warrior Mage: spec weapon, spec Life
Hirihoto Warrior Mage: spec weapon, spec War
Og Melee: spec weapon, spec Creature/Life
Within Yom's basic template, the choice of racial weapon is optional. Staff does better damage over time and now has a slashing weapon. Staff also saves a couple points but commits you to Arcane Lore to not waste starting credits.
100/10/10/10/100/100
Spec: Staff
Train: War, Life, Creature (or Item), Mana Conversion, Arcane Lore
Item (or Creature) @ 9, Healing @ 20, other skills optional
If you don't mind dealing with low Strength, choosing Aluvian for Dagger is an interesting option. In addition to getting the best melee weapon in the game today, you get a large boost to Coordination based skills such as Healing, Lockpick, and Melee Defense.
10/10/100/10/100/100
Spec: Dagger
Train: War, Life, Creature (or Item), Mana Conversion, Arcane Lore
Item (or Creature) @ 9, Healing @ 20, other skills optional
The Sono Hito template spec's Life giving you at least one strong school of magic:
100/10/10/10/100/100
Spec: UA, Life
Train: War, Creature (or Item)
Mana Conversion @ 7, Item (or Creature) @ 20, Healing @ 40, other skills optional
This variant plays differently than the Yom template. Having spec’d Life skill makes the Sono Hito better at support and debuffing. If Yom is capable of debuffing a creature, then he is just as capable of finishing it with his War magic. But the Sono Hito template has a Life magic skill higher than his War making many situations where he can debuff a creature and then more reliably finish it with his melee skill. This variant then plays more often as a hybrid melee than Yom might.
The Hirihoto template spec's War:
100/10/10/10/100/100
Spec: Staff, War
Train: Life, Mana Conversion
Creature @ 9, Item @ 26, Healing @ 50, other skills optional
This variant plays out much as the Yom variant but with a much better War skill. It won't feel as gimpy as a mage while retaining the same basic melee skills. The starting credits balance easier if you go Staff or Dagger.
The Og Melee templates have been discussed ad infinitum on the Warrior Stop boards. Most will not get War magic and thus remain hybrid melees and not true Warrior Mages under the definition I use here.
100/10/10/10/100/100
Spec: UA, Creature, Life
Train: Item
Mana Conversion @ 7, Healing @ 16, War @ 80
Essentially a melee throughout its career, the Og Melee becomes a full-fledged Warrior Mage very late. But the debuffing power of this template is awesome.
Recommendations
Given how weak melee is in the game today, I’m not sure I can recommend that anyone play a Warrior Mage. The only creatures you absolutely must use melee skill on are the hollow lugians, and it takes very little melee skill to hit these. Simply take any mage template, max out the damage attribute for your racial weapon, put some XPs into your racial weapon, and you’ll have sufficient skill with it just trained. Likewise, trained melee skill is sufficient to hunt grievvers and lower level olthoi, the other likely choices to melee.
However, if you still want to give it a try, then I do recommend you specialize at least one magic school.
For solid PvM play, I’d go with the Hirihoto variant and Staff, the Sono Hito is a close second.
For solid PvP play, the Og Melee is a fine template with UA.
Of course, the game continues to change and what is an uber template one day is many times discarded for another. Turbine has promised melee love in the near future. Depending on how effective that is and on how it is implemented, the Warrior Mage could become the trend of future. At least, I’m keeping my fingers crossed.
Q and A with Yom
<< But now that Arcane has been upgraded, it does make me wonder... Should I take arcane next? >>
Even without the upgrade, my vote would be for Arcane Lore and still get Lockpick.
Lore and Lockpick help you cut down on buffs and give you access to some of the top items in the game. A Major War item would be really nice for an Og Mage.
Melee Defense cuts down on damage, period. You might be able to use it to cut down on buffs some, perhaps skip banes in certain places or perhaps use Melee D req items.
But I don't think the utility of Melee D for a mage is as much as what Lore and Lockpick would give you.
<< Almost makes me wanna reroll this hybrid ghetto character from my og mage......almost
>>Heh, I didn't mention it originally to avoid upsetting the Ogs, but my main prior the Yom was an Og.
<< I think you have too much of a "melee-mind set" Yom, >>
Yea, I've been slumming too much on the Warrior boards.
What I had wanted in the character was to be able to use melee or mage almost interchangeably. Of course, the realities of the game don't allow that at high level very easily. So sadly, Yom has been mostly a mage for the last 50 levels or so, and melee has indeed been just a backup. But I spent a lot of credits and XPs for this "backup."
Melee Defense did swing it back a little. Because Yom does evade high level content well in melee mode, some high level quest dungeons are easier as melee. *shrug*
<<What's not uber about this template? It's max/min for starting attributes. It's spec'd a killing skill and completes at 100. >>
Yea, but the moron didn't max the attributes for that spec killing skill. So it's still roughly a trained skill.
Uh, wait, is this my thread?
<< Your experience with meleeD evades is especially interesting, since it goes against conventional wisdom (specialize it or forget it). >>
There's this notion that if you can't evade 100% then it's worthless (same for Magic D too). But evading occasionally (or even resisting occasionally) does help, even if it's just a little.
But the thing is, with really crappy stats to start, my trained Melee D gets a lot of evades in melee mode. Trained does help. I'd think that normal melees would get great use from trained Melee D.
In mage mode, eh, I still can't really recommend it. But there are examples where it has made a difference.
I do evade cursed bones even relics once in a while. Now in normal hunting you have quite a bit control over what you engage, and those rare evades make little difference. But I just got done doing Aerfalle's Keep. During the fight to find the watchman and in the keep itself, those rare evades started to count. The cumulative effect made it easier to stay healthy, to stay focused on killing, and I found I got through in far better shape than previous expeditions despite the fact this was the smallest group I'd done it with.
Also, I did the Singularity Bore solo recently. Now with great armor, a phat shield, and some luck (if anything to keep the lag away), anyone with enough weapon skill can do it. But before Melee D, I was hard-pressed to handle two terebrous minions at once. During this particular trip, I got surrounded by five or six. I managed to get into a corner and kept it to three at a time and survived. It was very close at times, so without the evades I'm pretty sure there would have been a messy cleanup for the Bore Sanitation Dept.
But it's still not enough that I'd recommend Melee D for a mage. Those 10 credits aren't allowing me to do things I couldn't have done without. All sorts of characters hit Aerfalle's Keep or the Sing Bore without Melee D. I used to hunt hollows at tusker camps, in Panopticon, in the lugian mines, in Linvak Tukal, and even terebrous on the Caul without Melee D. Those 10 credits just make it a bit easier, and for me that's not that great an investment.
<< Agreed in general, Yom... I'm not saying meleeD is worthless, but only that it is not cost-efficient. >>
That sums it up nicely.
<< And as you know doubt know, the difference between the "occassional" evade and "occassional" resist is of course that melee doesn't kill ya, but magic does... >>
Heh. Curiously the very next two deaths I had after getting my Melee D to over 300 buffed were from melee attacks. A relic polished me off once after I'd gotten in trouble and tried getting away. And a hellfire went melee on me and critted twice in a row, ouch. So much for Melee D saving the day.
But normally, yea, even without a shield, you take much more damage from spells than melee attacks.
<< Dizzarian : I think it will probably influence a few to try it. Seems like a pretty fun template. >>
Egads, it wasn't my intent to persuade anyone to do it. But rather to make sure they understand what they might be getting into if they were inclined to try something like this.
